We had the pleasure to chat with Laure d’Hauteville & Christophe Nobileau of Focus Entertainment about the publisher’s changing business model, the growing pipeline, and upcoming, exciting games.
Here are the topics we have discussed:
- 1What does Focus Entertainment do?
- 2Creating returns in the gaming sector
- 3Strengths of Focus Entertainment
- 4The marketing strength
- 5The change in Focus Entertainment's strategy
- 6Doubling down on the videogame industry
- 7Alternative sources of revenue
- 8Producing high-quality games
- 9Sequels vs. one-off deals
- 10Why license owners trust Focus Entertainment
- 11M&A transactions and acquiring other companies
- 12The M&A transaction process
- 13Additional value to bought companies
- 14Closing thoughts
What does Focus Entertainment do?
[00:00:39] Tilman Versch: Hello audience, it’s great to have you back today. I’m bringing you two French guests from Focus Entertainment, a gaming company. Hello Laure, hello Christophe!
[00:00:49] Laure d’Hauteville: Hi, nice to meet you!
[00:00:50] Christophe Nobileau: Hi, how are you?
Creating returns in the gaming sector
[00:00:52] Tilman Versch: Nice to meet you here! Today the topic is the gaming space and, as we are time-constrained, I’ll jump right away into the interview. Let’s start with some basics: can you explain what kind of companies or business models can be found in the gaming sector and how they create returns (like a general introduction to the gaming space)?
[00:01:16] Laure d’Hauteville: Ok, I’ll take this one. I will speak about Focus, if you don’t mind, instead of the whole gaming industry.
You have many means of monetizing. The focus is on the pc-console area, publishing and developing Double-A and Indie Games, and we are not on a “free-to-play” model. When we develop the game, then we sell it, and then we can do some live extensions, some DLCs, and content. So we monetize the launch of the game when people buy the game, and then we can add content where people buy again some new content.
So, in a very short way, this is how we do business.
[00:00:56] Christophe Nobileau: And let’s say that for Indie Games, in terms of investment, it’s between € 500k to € 2mln of investment per game, and for Double-As between € 2mln and € 25mln to develop. Usually, it takes at least three to four years at least to develop.
We used to be a publisher, but now we are a much more integrated group. Being a publisher was to say that we were receiving projects from developers and from studios, which were creators.
We have clever ideas, I’m sure we are going to make incredible video games and to accept to publishers, which means – sorry guys to tell it – it’s to finance them.
So, we are financing during, let’s say, three to four years studios and developers based on what they propose, and we are helping them, trying to help them, during the full years of the production process. We offer a production department, which is a lot of people being with the developer or the studio, having them every day just to make sure that they are pretty good in terms of playing games, of content, of technique, of technology – because the videogame industry gathers lots of different skills, and it’s pretty difficult, you see, it’s pretty tough… obviously, it is not a nuclear electricity factory, but it’s pretty tough. So, you have usually between 20 to 100-150 people working for years to develop that game.
Our publishing activity is, first of all, to coordinate the development of the game, then market it (and marketing is absolutely key in this business, absolutely), and then do business (that is, sell it). We are usually selling through shops…that is only now five persons who are physical –
[00:04:35] Laure d’Hauteville: Retail.
[00:04:40] Christophe Nobileau: – and ninety-five persons digital, which are pretty large distributors like Microsoft or Sony…
[00:04:49] Laure d’Hauteville: Steam…
[00:04:49] Christophe Nobileau: Steam…so, let’s say, pretty big guys. So, this is our job.
We used to be a little publisher, and now the strategy is to develop, to be much more integrated, which means to own IPs and to develop and publish. For sure we do not aim to be a 100-person company publishing our own games: we need new people coming, we need newcomers –
[00:05:33] Laure d’Hauteville: Fresh ideas…
[00:05:34] Christophe Nobileau: Fresh people…So if we can do 50-person publishing with other studios and 50 persons with our own IPs, that would be perfect.
Strengths of Focus Entertainment
[00:05:45] Tilman Versch: What is the strength of Focus Entertainment compared to other gaming companies or gaming publishers? Where are you strong?
[00:05:53] Laure d’Hauteville: We are very – the publishing is definitely where we’re coming from, and our marketing teams are just incredible. I mean, we do offer, like, a full communication marketing agency. We have all the network of influencers, we have the teams in-house to build the assets, and the trailers, and we can, for a competitive budget, launch very successfully some games.
We have some partners who are actually selecting Focus while they have in their family own publishing competencies, but they decide to go for us. So, we definitely have some nice expertise.
Another thing that really people come to us to get is the certification process from the production side because it’s very…it requires a lot of experience and knowledge to be able to go through the whole certification process when you sell to the console partners. It’s not only technical: it’s the relationship we have with the partners, the ones that Christophe mentioned earlier. So, this is another thing they come to us for.
Another asset we have is the quality, the QA work we’re doing: people really…I mean, the studios we work with coming to us to get this feedback, to improve the content of their products. The marketing we don’t…we can discuss the pillars of the game and this kind of things, but on the production side, we do have an impact on the content of the game, to help them get the best value from it.
So, I would say marketing, certification, and QA: this is what people are coming to us for.
So, I would say marketing, certification, QA: this is what people are coming to us for.Laure d’Hauteville
[00:07:43] Christophe Nobileau: I have to say that Laure is the CFO, she’s not the Marketing Officer of the company, but apparently, she loves the marketing team. It’s 40 people –
[00:07:54] Laure d’Hauteville: They convinced me of the value they bring to the company…and I’m coming from the mobile game, fully integrated –
[00:08:03] Tilman Versch: You were at Gameloft…
[00:08:06] Laure d’Hauteville: Exactly, so I have some comparables. And I would say that I feel a lot of maturity here in marketing. I mean, they know their business, they know! They don’t ask questions every day, they know where to go, they know where to hit, which campaign, which channels to be used, and everything. They master it.
[00:08:26] Christophe Nobileau: Maybe just for you to understand, we are a 300-people company. Let’s say, 120 people are developers (we have 80 people in Frankfurt developing, we have 40 people in France), and we have 180 people in publishing (publishing Indie and publishing Double-A); out of 180, we have let’s say, 100 people technical (let’s say, production, which is to be behind our studios, just to make sure that they are in the right direction in the full years of the process of production), we have 40 people doing marketing, let’s say 20 people in business more or less –
[00:09:23] Laure d’Hauteville: Yes.
[00:09:24] Christophe Nobileau: – and the remaining 30 as business development and whatever –
[00:09:34] Laure d’Hauteville: Support functions (HR, finance)…
[00:09:36] Christophe Nobileau: HR, finance, law, and blablabla.
[00:09:41] Tilman Versch: And behind you, we see parts of your office…
[00:09:45] Laure d’Hauteville: Marketing team!
[00:09:46] Christophe Nobileau: Yeah! Because she asked me to be with the marketing team to speak with you, she loves marketing people! I have to say that they are incredibly good. We are working closely with a German company of influencers, and…we have a few, well ok no, a lot of projects in Germany. And Germany represents something like seven persons of our channel…five persons France, seven persons Germany –
[00:10:18] Laure d’Hauteville: We don’t provide so many details, but I have to say that definitely, the US is our end-user, I mean, our end-customer (based approximately half in the US) –
[00:10:35] Christophe Nobileau: In Northern America
[00:10:36] Laure d’Hauteville: Northern America, and then you have the top three countries (France, Germany) coming after [00:10:41 inaudible].
[00:10:42] Christophe Nobileau: We have between 90 and 95 persons digital, more or less 50 persons from Northern America. Europe then, and then the rest of the world, like, you know, Oceania, Australia, I don’t know [00:11:04 inaudible]. So, this is what we are.
The marketing strength
[00:11:18] Tilman Versch: You mentioned your marketing team as “incredible”. What, besides their skills, makes them incredible? Do they have special data? What is the base for this incredibleness?
[00:11:31] Laure d’Hauteville: We do have a data department, we have been reinforcing it lately. Data and tech are working very closely in our company, and we have been able to – I mean, I’m sure this does exist in other companies – they have been able to use data, to leverage data to make up for, I think, 40 years of past history, to assess from that exactly from one day to another what would be the best day to launch the game, what channel was working. So we’re really leveraging very well the data. There is a lot more to do, so we are going to increase our effort in this area. But I think this knowledge and this way of leveraging data.
The other thing is we have some people who have been in the business for a very long time, so they have seen how the market has evolved. And they are gamers, all gamers…I think when you do marketing in a videogame company you have to love the product. They love the product, they are very committed, and they have been – the head of the marketing and his very close folks – in the company for a very long time. And he’s, I mean, experimented.
I don’t want to give you all the details because you can use them in other…
[00:12:59] Christophe Nobileau: No but for sure, we are very happy with our marketing people, our production people, technical people, businesspeople…they are really good. It’s more than twenty years in this business, and we are known for being one of the best publishers in this world, and most of our clients say: “We are at that point of quality and of profitability thanks to Focus”.
At one point, the question was: it’s very nice to create skills and improve assets, but at a point, you don’t want to just be a distributor of incredible assets, you want to own your own assets. So, obviously, we will be keeping that capacity to create incredible assets for others, but now we are going to do it for ourselves. It’s a reason why we are turning our business model from publishing to a much more integrated group, owning IPs and being able to develop assets in the long term.
For who knows the gaming industry, you will be able just to see what we did with GIANT studio (which developed Farming Simulator), with Saber (which developed SnowRunner and MudRunner)…and they all say: “If we are at such levels, it’s because we have been accompanied by an incredible publisher”. So, we will be keeping that strategy, plus we will do it also for ourselves, because, at present, the value we see in IP is a reason why we invest in Focus.
I am an investor – I am the CEO of the company, but I am an investor – and we thought that investing in a publisher and being able to turn this model and go to IPs adds much more value, it would be absolutely a good idea. It’s going to take some time, because, as you understood, game development lasts four years, so I would say a pretty long time, an investment in Focus Entertainment needs a pretty long time.
But the management of the company decided to go on that switch of strategy, let’s say, three years ago. We started to see the first results of this strategy, and next year we’ll see more of the total results of this strategy.
It’s very nice to create skills and improve assets, but at a point you don’t want to just be a distributor of incredible assets, you want to own your own assets.Christophe Nobileau
[00:15:55] Laure d’Hauteville: Yes, because maybe we talked a lot about marketing, but marketing is where we come from. And maybe if we just look at the numbers, the ones that are public, two years ago there were basically no developer resources, I mean it was a pure publishing company. Now we have one-third of the total headcount of the group that is dedicated to developing our own IPs.
So, I mean, the change has been really fast. And, as Christophe mentioned, it takes quite some time to develop a game (it can go up to four years), so we won’t get all the fruits right now, but we have made some real…I mean, the change is real. A hundred people are now dedicated to developing games, IPs, and our own IPs.
The publisher agreement we have, which is co-development-publishing…we do have now contracts where we co-own the IP. So all this would take some time to flow into our accounts, because of the development time, but the change in strategy that started in late 2019 accelerated with the acquisition of Deck13 (which is based in Frankfurt), then we acquired Dotemu (which is a publisher-developer), we acquired then Streum On Studio, Leiker Studio, and Douze Dixiemes, I think I don’t forget anyone.
So, five acquisitions in a year and a half. They are not huge acquisitions; we hope one day we’ll make bigger ones since it’s our strategy. But still, we’ve made progress. We’ve made progress on our strategy, and our strategy is to move up the value chain, to go from a distributor-publisher strategy to a publisher-developer strategy, where we will own or co-own our own IPs, which is way more profitable.
We’ve made progress on our strategy, and our strategy is to move up the value chain, to go from a distributor-publisher strategy to a publisher-developer strategy, where we will own or co-own our own IPs, which is way more profitable.Laure d’Hauteville
The change in Focus Entertainment‘s strategy
[00:17:52] Tilman Versch: You mentioned the fruits you want to earn at a certain point in time. What kind of fruits could this mean in terms of revenue for the future trajectory of the company? What are the things you are waiting for from the shifts in strategy (also in margins)?
[00:18:07] Christophe Nobileau: We do not really comment on that. I think you should go to see the consensus of analysts, which is something we –
[00:18:20] Laure d’Hauteville: The consensus is…I mean, you can get it on Bloomberg or anything, we do not provide guidance. We have, and I encourage you to read it, our press release, expected to be issued on June 16th.
We want to give more visibility to the line-up, which is the best way to describe this change in strategy, and we want to explain what has been done, what I just explained to you: that we have now a hundred persons on our payroll dealing with game development, more contracts with co-IP and this kind of things, so we want to give maybe more information on those items to show how it can convert into revenue and margin. But we do not provide guidance and definitely, ten days before the press release, we won’t be able to give you some more information on that.
…This is our strategy because we are convinced it will bring value.
[00:19:17] Christophe Nobileau: And we are pretty confident in the consensus.
[00:19:24] Tilman Versch: Christophe, you are also part of the biggest shareholder groups, like Neology, and I think you hold around 35% of the company…
[00:19:42] Christophe Nobileau: 43%.
[00:19:44] Tilman Versch: Ok, it’s increased, and my numbers are a bit outdated…
[00:19:45] Christophe Nobileau: We bought 35% and we are now holding 43%.
[00:19:50] Tilman Versch: And you bought back some shares recently also?
[00:19:53] Christophe Nobileau: Yes.
Doubling down on the videogame industry
[00:19:55] Tilman Versch: What is here, as an investor, your investment feels for this investment or why was it so attractive to go and pick?
Alternative sources of revenue
[00:20:45] Tilman Versch: With the shift, you also had a shift in revenues to more of your own IPs. Are there also revenues that aren’t shown currently really in the pipeline? What are the optionalities coming from your IPs, think of merchandise for instance…are you planning to have more income from this?
[00:21:03] Laure d’Hauteville: I am not aware of any significant revenue coming from merchandising today, but definitely if we do have one of our own IPs being a blockbuster or everything, we’ll go on the merch if we believe it’s…I mean, we are pragmatic. So, first, if you want to do merch because you have a great IP, it doesn’t make sense if you don’t have a great IP. If we have a great IP, we’ll go for merch, videos, and tv shows. I mean, whatever makes sense to grow the IP.
[00:21:39] Christophe Nobileau: In terms of dedication of time: at present, it’s better to go to new IPs and to develop IPs, selling videogames.
At present, merchandising does not represent incredible revenues. Except for a few things, like Laure just mentioned: the developing and shooting series. We now have two different projects for certain IPs, we are trying to develop a series (for Netflix or Amazon or whatever). And ok, pretty good profitability, but again, nothing in comparison to the profitability of a videogame, its profitability is way way way way broader.
So, at present, we think we have many more opportunities to develop new videogames rather than spending too much time trying to develop different sources of profit. But it will come, we have lots of requests from TV channels, to develop series, for example. And that can represent something like…few seasons of a series can represent € 10mln to € 15mln turnover, so you have to consider that…
Producing high-quality games
[00:23:20] Tilman Versch: As I was going through the list of games you have in your repertoire, I was fascinated that many have great reviews from game publications reviewers. How do you make sure that you pick the ideas and the games that have this high level of standard? And how is the process? People approach you to…
[00:23:23] Christophe Nobileau: We have very experimented, talented people. And that is the value of the company.
We have very experimented, talented people. And that is the value of the company.Christophe Nobileau
[00:23:45] Laure d’Hauteville: Their ability to detect the potential of a game.
We were discussing the assets, and the competencies that Focus has…sometimes studios can come to us, or we find them, and they pitch, and the feedback we provide will help to grow the products. I am not a video gamer, I have to confess that, so it’s kind of a mystery for me, but I can tell that when they see potential in a game – we have been going through budget at the side, with planning, you can imagine – they are usually right on the spot when they see potential for a game, they have this expertise.
[00:24:35] Christophe Nobileau: The fact is that they had this expertise thanks to one guy something like ten years ago, but now we are in a much more industrial way, we are launching ten to twelve games a year. So now everyone expresses their feelings (marketing people, business people, …), now you have like six or seven people in Acquisition that are expressing their feelings based on their really incredible industrial approach – and I’m not really proud about that, because we are speaking about creativity, so we should be able to do it like this [snaps fingers to convey that “it should happen out of nowhere, instinctively”], to have a vision – but now we are not visionaries, we are industrious, we are industrial people, it’s industry, it’s nothing else. From time to time we can –
[00:25:52] Laure d’Hauteville: We can be wrong sometimes…
[00:25:54] Christophe Nobileau: We can be wrong. But we have an industrial view on that, everyone is expressing, we are really good professionals.
[00:26:08] Laure d’Hauteville: They are made of veterans!
[00:26:10] Christophe Nobileau: Lots of skills, lots of veterans. Some of them are 45 years old, which is in this industry totally old. Except for us, because Laure is 40, the average age here is 29 years…but we have a team of veterans, for sure.
[00:26:35] Laure d’Hauteville: And their job is to scout, go to videogame shows (such as PAX, Gamescon, E3, and this kind of things), and this is where they scout, this is where they assess the potential of a studio, of a team. This is a human-being industry, I mean, it is really. We are dealing with emotion, and entertainment…so you have to love the projects.
[00:26:58] Christophe Nobileau: But we have to be industrial, we are not poets too much!
This is a human-being industry, I mean, it is really. We are dealing with emotion, entertainment…Laure d’Hauteville
But we have to be industrial, we are not poets too much!Christophe Nobileau
[00:27:05] Laure d’Hauteville: They go through the Acquisition Committee, where they submit their choice…
Sequels vs. one-off deals
[00:27:13] Tilman Versch: How much of your revenue or pipeline is existing games & sequels and new games you’re developing? What is the share between both?
[00:27:31] Laure d’Hauteville: We don’t provide revenue per game, so that’s difficult for us to answer. But we can tell that…you mentioned MudRunner: SnowRunner it’s a nice contributor to our revenue this year, it’s been a good success, but we’ve had other successes and failures with other titles. We can tell that A Plague Tale: Innocence (of which A Plague Tale: Requiem, which will be released later in the year, is the sequel), this game has been performing really well.
Some games that have been launched a few months or years ago are still generating revenue because of new content and/or because we are negotiating one-off deals with the big partners, so we’re able to monetize some games for some time. And this is one of the challenges as well, to make the IP last longer.
[00:28:36] Christophe Nobileau: For sure it was more a company which used to do one-offs, and for sure, we have the profitability to get increased just thanks to that, thanks to the sequels.
We are now on a much more, let’s say, “sequel strategy”. As mentioned, we launched SnowRunner two years after MudRunner; as Laura just mentioned, we will be launching A Plague Tale: Requiem, which is a sequel of A Plague Tale: Innocence. So, we are doing that in terms of marketing efforts, obviously, it’s much easier.
The focus was kind of on trying to launch incredible new expenses; it’s good, but from time to time it’s good to commercialize on success.
[00:29:46] Laure d’Hauteville: We’ll be focusing on growing IPs by adding new sequels and, in parallel, developing and investing in our own brand new IPs. So, we’re tackling both in a balanced way.
Why license owners trust Focus Entertainment
[00:30:01] Tilman Versch: Let me go a bit to the licensed content you still have. I’m interested in why certain companies, for instance, Game Workshop, trust you to make games for their IP (they like to protect, they have high-quality games) – I think it’s Space Marine 2 you’re producing at the moment, it’s coming out soon…So why have they chosen you as a partner here?
[00:30:26] Christophe Nobileau: They didn’t choose us.! We went to the owner of the IP, and we asked him, and then he said: “Ok, why not, just provide us with a very good studio”. So, we came back to them, saying we think that Saber could be interesting indeed. We spoke to Saber, and we were told we could get this project. They accepted and we have the IP developed, this game with Saber (it’s a developer and the owner of the IP).
Obviously, we will see the result in a little more than a year…
[00:31:15] Laure d’Hauteville: A couple years!
[00:31:18] Christophe Nobileau: More than one year, and I think we are very proud of what we provide to the market with this game.
M&A transactions and acquiring other companies
[00:31:31] Tilman Versch: Let’s talk a bit about M&A, because if you go through your history – you already explained it a bit – you did lot of M&As. Why does it financially make sense for you to acquire other companies in the gaming space and how do you make sure that you create value by doing this?
[00:31:48] Christophe Nobileau: Because the thing is that we want to be a much more integrated group owning these IPs. So, the easier way would be to develop internally. As you understood, to develop a project is 4 years. Usually, we start with € 1mln projects, then we do € 5mln projects, then we do € 10mln projects; so, we are a studio able to develop € 10mln projects after ten years. Unfortunately, as you see, we see we are pretty old. Maybe the people we are speaking with are pretty…they would see results…
So, we are going to…we love to do 50% internal growth and to do 50% external growth. Internal growth is pretty easy but very long, and external growth is pretty quick but pretty expensive, so we are just mixing these two things. We spent € 60mln or € 70mln for our acquisitions; we hopefully will invest much, much more.
50% internal growth and to do 50% external growth. Internal growth is pretty easy but very long, external growth is pretty quick but pretty expensive, so we are just mixing these two things. We spent € 60mln or € 70mln for our acquisitions; we hopefully will invest much, much more.Christophe Nobileau
[00:33:15 Laure d’Hauteville: We have the means, we have a strong balance sheet position, we have a credit line we have not completely used so far – so we have the means for our ambition and our strategy.
We have the means for our ambition and our strategy.Laure d’Hauteville
The M&A transaction process
[00:33:28] Tilman Versch: What is your framework and process in an M&A process? Like someone approaches you and what do you do to check till you say: “this might be an acquiring target to negotiate”? What is your process there?
[00:33:40] Christophe Nobileau: We have been investing in content companies for years. I’m not going to tell you our process, but till now it has been pretty successful.
We are looking for two different kinds of companies. Let’s say, equity value € 0-50mln are companies we are working with: we love them, we speak to them every day, and so we know exactly who they are and what are their abilities, and we do everything we can do for their growth. The second kind of target is, let’s say, € 50-200mln equity value, so this is a much more intermediated process, so we have an investment bank to use, and of course, we go through a different approach (obviously, it’s the best thing).
I have to say that, on market, we have some competition in the market: there are even people being able to spend $ 70bln to buy studios in the market.
But yeah, there are opportunities. We do not like to have whatever person; we are looking for entrepreneurs, we are looking for talents. We are telling them: For the next 5 years, we have an incredible adventure, we have a pretty nice start with Focus Entertainment, and let’s develop this group and let’s go – it’s a long-term role, it’s a long-term role…But, obviously, there are lots of people who prefer to take someone [00:35:56 inaudible] for sure, but there are some people who are so fascinated, who put so much work in this industry who are happy to join us and to take what we can bring to them. And it is not only money.
And we just say: “Ok please develop the best game ever. You have whole freedom in terms of creativity. We provide you back-office facilities, and you will have just one aim, one goal, which is to create the most incredible video game of your life.”.
And we just say: “Ok please develop the best game ever. You have whole freedom in terms of creativity. We provide you back-office facilities and you will have just one aim, one goal, which is to create the most incredible video game of your life.”.Christophe Nobileau
Additional value to bought companies
[00:36:45] Tilman Versch: Is there anything else you think that adds value to the company you are buying?
[00:36:49] Christophe Nobileau: Yeah, it’s just what I described you. We are providing full kinds of services: publishing, production, marketing, business, providing them with a team to create a TV series or to give them data to help them just to…We provide lots of different services to help them grow and to be perfectly targeted, and not to take care of financing, accounting, HR, production line, discussions with partners, and blablabla.
We offer them a huge pool of services, saying them: “Please, just give all your energy to creativity and content”.
[00:38:56] Laure d’Hauteville: And maybe we can add that we want to be a group. It’s not only, you know – they will still be independent on creativity, we want them to be still the one to provide ideas, new concepts, pitching and everything, but we want to be a group. I mean, this is definitely the “Federation of Talents” we want to build. Not a family, but still, it’s not just investing in studios: it’s building together a group.
This is definitely the “Federation of Talents” we want to build. Not a family, but still, it’s not just investing in studios: it’s building together a group.Laure d’Hauteville
[00:38:30] Tilman Versch: For the end of the interview, do you have something to add that helps viewers to understand Focus Entertainment?
[00:38:36] Christophe Nobileau: I have to say that questions were pretty ok, we were able to cover all our group…the problem is that we know about our group, so we don’t really know what we are able to expand on and what we forgot to say! But if you have more questions, please feel free…if you have some other questions, we will be more than happy to answer.
[00:39:10] Laure d’Hauteville: And watch out for the next PR, that’s all we can say. There is an IR email address if some of your audiences are investors and want to get more information.
[00:39:21] Tilman Versch: I will put the link in the show notes so that people can find you with one click.
[00:39:24] Christophe Nobileau: I’m not really sure that we will be able to answer in German…
[00:39:32] Laure d’Hauteville: Yes. But we will make sure to follow up at least!
[00:39:37] Tilman Versch: I think most people will write you in English…if they stick till here, they know English!
[00:39:43] Christophe Nobileau: That’s right.
[00:39:44] Tilman Versch: Thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much to the audience for listening. Thank you.
[00:39:49] Laure d’Hauteville: Thank you very much, thank you for your questions!
[00:39:51] Christophe Nobileau: It’s been a pleasure to speak with you!
[00:39:52] Tilman Versch: Bye bye!
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